stories about people making a difference. and the continent of africa. the stories about motivational change makers taking their destiny into their own. w. d w dot com africa. despite heavy pressure from the united states and israel one hundred twenty eight countries at the united nations voted to reject donald trump's decision to recognize jerusalem as israel's capital and move his embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem israel called those countries' puppets and said its capital would always be jerusalem this week my guest is mark reg f.

the former israeli government spokesman now his country's ambassador here in london over the many years since israel annexed east jerusalem what kind of city has it become. welcomes concords of thanks for having one hundred twenty eight countries rejected the u.s. decision to move its embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem your ambassador at the united nations labeled those under twenty eight countries puppets and your government called the un the house of lies what benefit do these insults bring you the truth is the un has a pattern of historic bias against my country and it's not unusual that you get these massive. majorities against israel has been so great you recently insulting

comments what i think the u.n. deserves to be criticized for its treatment of israel but countries like china russia india for great britain voted the way you don't like i think certain would be called puppets i would remind you that consecutive secretary generals of the united nations. the current one and the two previous ones have all called out the un as an institution having a bias and obsession with israel and there is a serious problem there that has to be dealt with when these countries just don't agree with the alternative universe that your government has constructed for itself to their own no i think anyone who looks at the un pattern of below the way people vote in the general assembly i mean more resolutions passed condemning the only democracy in there in the middle east than condemning north korea or syria. saddam's iraq over to a man so talk about the extent of the law is a little later but there is if you hadn't of institutional bias which has to be

called out anyone who believes the united nations has been fairly israel needs to look at the past so is britain biased against israel germany france russia china are they all biased against israel would you like to look at the substance of the discussion with what i mean could you answer the question do you think they're biased against israel i say entries i think present from suspicion was a good decision and that more countries should question you lump them all into the house of law in islam the permits the other way in these countries pius the us where as an institution is biased institution is made up of individual countries i'm asking you whether those individual countries are those individual who does eroded you don't seem to want to answer the question no i will say the those you in countries voted the wrong way. but are they biased against israel therefore there is a pattern of institute you know dollars a year after year in iranian nation you don't want to sell by being recorded that you say that britain and france and germany and russia and china are biased why

don't we look at the you know to say that why don't we look at the countries there you're not going to say why don't we look at the countries who who refused to support this can enter australia very few whole and very little republic very few the moral minority very few you're clutching at straws and the truth is though if you look at patterns of burning at the un will actually see that many countries the automatic majority that often against israel has actually over the last few years been slowly but surely depleted and i'm confident that that process will continue well and doing very well as far as you're concerned in britain is it because the british government response was jerusalem was in the is not your capital and yours are the alan duncan the foreign office laid it out quite clearly said we do not agree with the announcement jerusalem is the capital it should be the final status issue in particular of course your resume is divided between east and west jerusalem and east jerusalem is most certainly not part of israel so you're not

having much luck changing the british government's position with diplomacy is not about insisting in diplomacy is about talking and i'm hopeful that britain will recognise jerusalem as the capital of israel and you say it's not about insisting on prime minister was washington decision he hopped on a plane to brussels and tried to strongarm the european union and doing the same thing as washington think everyone should do the same thing because ultimately to recognise. them the number that you need to see the world as you see it they don't see israel as you see it can't you accept that i wouldn't use that language told them it was time they recognise the facts that are strong stronger than i think i think it is the facts that the truth is true slim has been the capital of the state of israel since the. it's been the captain of the jewish people for some three thousand years anyone who denies the jewish connection to jerusalem denies reality . here and there been a lot about unpleasant realities that have been with denying it over the years so

there's nothing unpleasant about jerusalem being the capital of israel it's a city that we cherish well duncan said it quite clearly didn't he said it's not your capital jerusalem is divided between east and west jerusalem east jerusalem is most certainly not part of israel you can get it much clearer than that but if the opinion of some international community that everything over the sixty seven line is open for negotiation then i lost the following question jerusalem is israel's capital not for ninety six or seven from nine hundred forty nine what is the problem in recognizing jerusalem as israel's capital it's recognizing reality where you if you talk to the british government which i assume is your role as a there then you will know exactly what the problem was because they told you and i disagree with their analysis and so this is not going anywhere is it i mean this this is part of the trump playbook that your government is using is that you reject all criticism you double down on whatever actions cause that criticism in the first place and you know but when criticism isn't just a part i think it's within our right to stand up and say we disagree with the

criticism you don't care what the rest of the world thinks i mean that's not true on the contrary your public security minister gilad came out and said at the end of last month playing a liquid local language the central committee of your ruling likud party you remember what he said you know regardless of what he's got that i can inform you of one of the things we're telling the world it doesn't matter what the nations of the world say the time has come to express our public or right to the land so that's it time for the goetia is over so far as governments concerned are i would say the following my prime minister is this week as you know in india on a historic trip. which voted against the rejected trump's move. last year he was in latin america or africa or in europe we believe that israel's case is strong and we're making that case. internationally and i think you'll see more and more countries coming around to supporting the way israel looks at this so you tell me your opinion what the public security minister. once again he's saying that

we have a right he's saying we're telling the world it doesn't matter what the nations of the world say that makes your diplomacy rather useless doesn't it i think the most important care i believe in the essential justice of my country scores of israel's cause and i will continue to make that case they would be helpful if you talked with one voice then wouldn't it when stead of one minister going up publicly and sank you know what we're not interested in what the rest of the world if we had a system as in north korea we would speak in one voice but as you know israel is a democracy our government the coalition so you speak at the metrically opposed position i wouldn't overstate it but i think anyone as you know who's covered israeli politics know that there's always a divergence of opinion in the israeli political elite which i suppose is healthy and is very strange you know has been for some top correct like the your former attorney general michael bennett put it a few years back we're talking about israel he said we enthusiastically chose to become a colonial society ignoring international treaties expropriating like transferring

settlers from israel to the occupied territories engaging in theft and finding justification for all that activity some of the i'm difference is i'm very proud to live in a country where people can openly criticize government policy a country where there's freedom of the press free trade unions or free academic institutions and i think tim to be fair i think israel is the only middle east country i'm not addressing are addressing the point i'm not interesting no i disagree or addressing the crucial point which is israel is an open free tolerant liberal pluralistic society and for all those things i think my country should get a certain amount of credit daniel seidemann who's director of the group terrestrial jerusalem they're examining what to slim might look like and the two state solution he went even further he said what was winked and nodded about before is now being acknowledged publicly. we means israel have no intention of sharing this land with anybody else except as a barely tolerated minority so this is where you've got to that's the future i

don't really know it's as if there is a better system and that's not the position of the israeli government perhaps you could explain how the position of the israeli government squares with the notion of israel's declaration of independence which said pledged to ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion race or sex you've never done fifty on the cars on the country in since israel's independence in nine hundred forty eight all israeli citizens have a quality of the law has almost really citizens it doesn't say that says inhabitants of israel irrespective of religion race or sex and that hundred percent correct all inhabitants of israel have equality under the law and i'm proud to say that i've been the only country which guarantees legal equality under the law that's why you have consistently refused to address the glaring discrimination against israeli arabs that successive reports both from your own government commissions and from your friends at the u.s. state department of highlighted last january human rights report from the state

department said institutional and society discrimination against arab citizens of israel goes on in particular in access to equal education housing and employment opportunities how does that square with your that i would agree that israel we've made a commitment to equality of all our citizens and it's crucial that we we act in a proactive way through affirmative action to narrow those gaps but you haven't in the last thirty years you've done nothing since the first intifada when the judge led commission the or commission determined that far from extending the peace to arabs as you always like to say the state of israel quoting to the commission did not do enough or try hard enough to create equality for its set as i think if you look very closely at the budget allocations. the last five six years you'll see the governor of israel has turned a corner that the investment in the arab sector whether it's in infrastructure whether it's in education whether it's another social services as an all time high

we are committed as a government not just in word but indeed to narrowing narrowing gaps where they exist we will live up to our commitment in our declaration of independence of equality aggregates have gone by when you could have done so much more and arab discrimination has continued in the same way in israel to the point where in twenty fourteen your president ruben rivlin labeled israel sick with racism and condemned those including politicians who stole country arab rhetoric and violence he said i'm not asking if we forgot to be jewish i'm a i'm asking if we forgot to be human and if they were the indictment when whether we like them when first of all my parent my president is expressing the moral authority of my country and whenever racism raises its ugly head we will condemn it we will fight it we will eliminate he was questioning whether you are behaving like human beings why do you think what you think tempted him to even mention that you know your many presidents when asking whether there really thought behaving like

human beings is this still a sign to him that israel is a sort of critical introspective country where we debate the issues we don't run away from uncomfortable news we want to engage we want to discuss the imagery you want to leave out this we want as you're saying it and how do addressing it we have to do it i don't believe. let me to address anything really you have only to listen to your own state controller an ombudsman september twenty sixth in judge joseph sabir lambasted what he said were the minimal activities of the education system to support unity in israel society the state of israel is doing very little he said this is in september twenty sixth teen years after you say you're trying to do something done doing very little to purge the severe phenomena of racism and hatred among youth. they're doing very little he says look in all western countries in all countries racism sometimes raises its ugly head the most important thing what does

leadership do but as leaders should speak out against racism to lead this leadership condemn racism and when there are gaps in society as there are in all societies are governments committed to narrowing those gaps and this really answer that question is authentic. let's look at the city of jerusalem under israeli rule it's become a place of division and poverty predominantly for the arab sector in east jerusalem the part you want to buy in sixty seven and then screwed into last year's poverty report to the national insurance institute three quarters of the residents of east jerusalem and eighty three point four percent of the children live below the poverty line that's more than fifty percent higher than the equivalent poverty rates in the rest of israel why did you let it get so bad i think the most important to remember is that since israel unify the city not in sixty seven for the first time in the history of the city all communities have religious freedom all the religious sides of all the faiths are protected and that each religious community autonomous lee administers its own religious site so the christian from

your mother religious sites a little bit about why that will be in the lease holders who are we'll get to that jewish like israeli will get to that in a second but one has to look at the facts this is a city that's important to millions of people around the planet yes so now my family let it sit there in the fact that the religious sites of all faiths are for the first time autonomously administered by their own respective religious communities the freedom of worship is in trying to an israeli law that is something that i believe israel deserves credit for actually let it get so bad i come back to this question which you don't want to know have your answer why did you let it get so bad i bought actually if you look at the situation in the arab neighborhoods of the city you'll see that there are gaps that need to be narrowed but compare them to arabs in other parts of the middle east or even in the past in turkish you see they are considerably better let's look at some of those gaps because you're a human rights organization that's eleven points while palestinians make up almost forty percent of the city's population the municipality runs only six family health

centers in their neighborhoods six do you know how many they run in the jewish neighborhoods. tell me sir twenty seven same story with social services only and the four in the palestinian neighborhoods nineteen in the jewish left if you think that's fair first of the arab population interesting makes up about a third of the people of the city and it's important i think that. the months receive the same services as do as everyone else so they say the taxes been heard i pay the taxes i've heard i heard directly from the mayor of jerusalem nir barkat he said he's committed to narrowing those gaps and i ask you once again to look at the trajectory is he in fact is the municipal government received today investing more in the arab sector in jerusalem i think the answer is clearly yes and as that trajectory continues you'll see gaps narrowed which is what we're committed to doing with this is a man who in two thousand and thirteen in the municipal elections only got just over five hundred votes from

a maximum of one hundred fifty seven thousand palestinians who could have voted for him and surely that's a question that the arab leadership that's what they thought of his efforts but let's be clear if arab residents of jerusalem utilize the ability of the democracy actually participated in useable elections maybe they'd have more political on the political clout on the council to actually get the bread and butter issues that they would be if you gave them full status and equal status with israeli jews they would feel like having a stake in that society only status as you know the only status sent to them in east jerusalem is that of permanent residence a status which confers far fewer rights than citizenship let's stop for a moment we have the jerusalem their arms and jerusalem have full rights to vote in municipal elections not in national airspace that you were talking to me specifically your question was about them in a way the municipal government drew some hands out its resources that was what your question was about surely the palestinians the arab population obviously would be

doing itself a failure a favor if it fully participated in the democratic process they can't fully publish it is there a simulated terrorist groups who. intimidate intimidate not one shred of evidence to back that up i beg to disagree with or wherever disagree. like hamas islamic jihad and the other extremist groups are not known for being particularly tolerant about people who are so have loans that's not evidence let's say it's experience another set of restrictions on the posters living issue slim is land according to the jerusalem institute for policy research population density in palestinian areas is almost double that of jewish neighborhoods why and why in these crowded neighborhoods do you continue to put jewish settlers in some two thousand eight hundred settlers have moved into palestinian neighborhoods. but selim says the settle in place have made the lives of palestinian residents unbearable forcing them to contend with legal proceedings aimed at driving them from their homes

invasion of privacy and daily our assessment i don't accept that analysis i accept that it's our duty as a government. to address them to make sure that we are acting to narrow gaps where they exist the children know this or that no i disagree you might argue with us so it's clearly is in the health care you could argue it's not as quick as it should be only fifty two percent have access to the legal water grid in the palestinian areas once again you know about water you're talking about a society when the city was unified that was far behind and i agree that we have to do more to narrow the gaps where they exist but we're committed to doing so well in not doing it very fast another feature of life in east use of the frequent raids by your security forces on palestinians and then the dead of night one example three months ago the night of october twenty second around eleven thirty at night hundreds of israeli police border police special patrol units raided the

palestinian neighborhood of a so we in east jerusalem according to bet selema the forces entered dozens of homes arrested fifty one there's an unseen clued in twenty six use between fifteen and seventeen they were forced to sign a declaration a statement of what they'd said in hebrew they don't they can't write read hebrew why do you do this to so i don't have the specifics on this i'm happy to get back to when i found out exactly what happened on that night i do know it's a pattern though isn't it you know it happens repeatedly according to the human rights organization there is there is a question of law and order if people are involved in criminal activities it's the job of the police to act against the measure you know in some of these areas which you quite rightly said where there's more poverty you get gangs you get violence and it's important the police act against these groups is a lot of them are released but where they held why they picked up at that the. knight once again i don't have the specifics because i don't know what exactly i'm no no but often men want to arrest people you want to arrest them when they're at home and that means you come at night the teenagers remain completely isolated for

the duration of the arrest without the protection of their parents or another adult they can trust and are cut off from their families and daily lives without knowing what's going to happen to them do you think that's fair for teenagers between fifteen and seventeen years old all democracies have a dilemma to deal with minors when you're involved in violence when they're involved in crime it's not never an easy no country has. a solution that is perfect we in israel of course grapple how do you do how do you deal effectively with minors involved in crime. hopefully we're doing a good job doesn't sound like it does it they said but says this reality of the arrests are likely arrests this reality isn't demick to israel system of control and oppression of the palestinian population he chews up once again the the arab population of jerusalem has all the legal rights as anyone else in that city and anyone who believes does little supplement know anyone who believes just talked about the national election doesn't have the right note in the action israeli

citizens vote in israeli action israeli citizens. of this regime have taken out israeli citizenship can vote in our elections if you choose not to take out israeli citizenship then you can vote in our elections that's clear i think that's this a lot of them just have permanent residency and have had a permanent residency for decades but as permanent resident of those they cannot vote in national elections in municipal elections and the truth is because of threats by the extremist groups unfortunately most of them still do not do so and i think one should ask the extremist about extremist why do you prevent encourage intimidate palestinian arab residents of jerusalem not to vote in elections why do you stop why do you stop people coming into the country and who belong to the boycott divestment and sanctions moved. and who recommend the economic boycott of israel why are you stopping them coming into the country every democracy on the planet has the right and do it happens in this country as happens in the united

states as happens in other european countries has the right to prevent people from visiting you are a counter to the common good this is a freedom of expression she has no sensation for civil rights in israel that's a violation of democratic i don't suppose i'm sorry in britain where we are conducting this interview the very strict the home office of who can come in and who can come out so who can come into this country recommend a boycott of britain if you like you're certainly allowed to don't know exactly right about it it's the property of the home secretary to decide who can come into this country or not this country is a democratic country israel has the same rights as other democracy it may be the prerogative but it's losing you important supporters and i don't think these people particularly supported us in the first place let's take a moment called david rothkopf who's a senior fellow at johns hopkins school of advanced international studies at juba lost three dozen of his relatives in the holocaust a few days ago he wrote banning those whose opinions are uncomfortable for israel to hear and consider not only weakens the country but suggests that the reasons for

my defenses of israel are collapsing collapsing. since the netanyahu administration has done more than ban critics it has turned supporters into at the says it's taken one large step in the direction of the liberal fog ocracy is favored by the likes of charm and stunt something else he said it's broken the hearts of those who wish deep within their d.n.a. that israel would have lived up to be even a shadow of the dreams our fathers and mothers had for it you can spend tens of thousands culturing the b.d.s. movement but if you lose a man like that with his attachment to israel to judaism with his intellectual abilities you're in more trouble than you think but i reject the substance of his argument anyone who goes to israel and you visit to my country many times who reads the israeli press who follows the israeli. scene who sees the debate in our

parliament who sees the debates in our intellectually media everyone knows that israel is a country where the speed of speech and freedom of thought is secretary to a country where the debates on these political issues are he doesn't and many others but he has i'm sorry he's wrong anyone who visits israel objectively knows i urge you to go these are the people mr reg who your losing and you can ill afford to lose people like that i'm sorry but i can disagree with them if they are factually wrong and he is factually wrong on this particular case israeli democracy is strong and vibrant i mean i urge you just to go to your computer and read a dozen israeli newspapers how much criticism will you find of the government when and where else in the middle east do trade union strike can come close down the whole country whereas in the middle east you have vigorous debates in parliament where government policy is debated and politicians argue with each other in an open way whereas in the middle east you have petitions being signed and demonstrations

that we are a country with faults but we are a vibrant pluralistic democratic society and anyone who says to the contrary is simply not telling the truth. story i guess it's been good to have you on the program thank you very much i think that. good.

luck. to you the countdown is on for britain's withdrawal from the good. folks. with it. while politicians doing. the reporting are seeking answers in the year ahead of bush. road to bridge today it

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own. home. this is d.w. news live from berlin today one flag a step towards deescalation is north and south korea agreed to march under one banner at next month's winter olympics there will also be sending a joint women's ice hockey team if the international olympic committee approves also on the program. a meeting of chancellor spoke whilst they were meeting of minds austria's courts and germany's angela merkel have been trying to find common

ground on the divisive issue of migration did they succeed.